The World in 1895

[Tadelesh]

I can't believe I haven't asked this before now. How plausible is it for someone to have explored a large portion of the world in five years (1890-1895)? When I was writing the part of Tadelesh's description that involved a brief background, I suddenly realised - I've given him only five years to have explored the world between running away from home at the age of 16 and arriving in BonBon at the age of 21.

In my mind, he has to have visited, at the very least, Eastern Asia (where he would have learned bojutsu), and Africa (from where he gets his name - Tadelesh is an African name, and not his real name). Is this a feasible achievement in the time that PBB is set, and if so, how many other places is it possible for him to have been to?
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Wow, sarcasm! That's original.

[JohnnyPsycho]

A good question, one I've been wondering for some time as well. My own character's backstory has him touring much of the world for something like 3 or 4 years, starting with a tour of Europe, a couple stops in Asia (Hong Kong and Kyoto so far, though I'm considering an adventure in Australia for a future story), and a second tour of Europe (ending in Bon Bon). It's only recently that I realized a possiblity that it might have taken much longer for Mr. Six-Killer to have toured the world like that...

Could anyone more familiar with boat and train transport of the era supply us with some answers?
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[Tearlach]

Philius Fogg made his journey in eighty days. But depending how long your avatar has spent in each of the countries he visited then it would be a case of how he travelled. Steam ship from Britain to Australia took about six weeks to two months, calling at various ports and countries along the way. It may help to read the novel 'Around the world in eighty days' in order to gleam some idea of the transports, routes and time involved. My own avatar is involved with air transport which though in the human 1895 was in its infancy, due to Bon Bon's setting I hope I will be allowed to advance the technology a little.
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[Tadelesh]

Yes, I know of Around the World in Eighty Days. I wasn't sure quite how realistic that was, though. Was he a real person, and the journey real, or is it all just fictional? I hate it when I can't remember which.

I guess it would depend on how long he spent in each country, yes. Perhaps I should find out how long it would take to become proficient in bojutsu for an idea of how long Tadelesh would have had to stay in that region at least.
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Wow, sarcasm! That's original.

[Tearlach]

Philius Fogg was a creation of Jules Verne in 1873, who also wrote '20,000 leagues beneath the sea'. Jules Verne also maintained a collection of over one hundred thousand notes on scientific, tecnological,geographical and cultural matters!
In 'eighty days' he states that:
" The "Rangoon" was a screw steamer, built of iron, weighing about 1770 tons and with engines of 400 horse power. The trip from Calcutta to Hong Kong only comprised some 3500 miles, occupying from ten to twelve days."
Very detailed, I hope you will agree.
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[Tadelesh]

Whenever Jules Verne is mentioned, I think of Back to the Future.

Anyway, thanks for the help.
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Wow, sarcasm! That's original.

[DesertWolf]

Well Tadelesh,it takes aprrox.3-6years to obtain a black belt(which was created by the founder of judo at the time.)but the belt system at the time only had white then black and after that came the Dan title(nidan,sandan,etc.)so for mastery it take around 10years of actual training.I hope that helps.
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[Tadelesh]

Hmm. Would someone teaching bojutsu travel with a student, or would they stay in a dojo or something similar? If the latter, then how much of the rest of the world could he have explored in the rest of the time left over after gaining a black belt? Or perhaps he should just have trained in it, not enough to earn the black belt.

Thanks for that.
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Wow, sarcasm! That's original.

[DesertWolf]

Normally you would be trained in a dojo.As for training if you're going to black belt status the minimum amount of time with a person who can learn quickly enough is about 3 years.This gives you about two years of travel left.
Or if you want to go down the other path I would say at least a year.This gives you a pretty grasp of the style basics and leaves you 4 years of travel.
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[Tsavo]

[Niam Maxtor]

Hello all, for my first post on PBB I thought I would contribute to this topic, seeing as my Character is the son of an Archaeologist an travels the world he should be up-to-date on 'current' world events.

Nineteenth Century China - the Qing Dynasty

The British Opium War (1840-1842)

Dating back to the mid 1700's, the British East India Company began producing Opium in India and shipping it to Guangzhou, China to pay for teas that were being exported to London. In actuality, Opium sales skyrocketed and Chinese Silver began to flow out of China to pay for the extreme Opium demands. The Qing administration became alarmed at the growing monetary crisis. In 1834 the British government ended the East India Company's monopoly on British trade with China and dispatched a British official to Guangzhou to supervise trade directly with China. Britain demanded treatment based on 'diplomatic equality, with the emperor. China was faced with a tough decision, if they accepted the terms then it would diminish the Emperors power, at the same time they could no longer tolerate the inflow of opium into China as it was devastating society. In the end the Qing Dynasty dispatched an Imperial Commissioner to Guangzhou in 1839 forcing British opium traders to surrender thier Opium stocks to Commissioner Lin Zexu. The British did not take lightly to this and dispatched warships. After six battles along China's southeast coast the British won the war and forced the Qing to sign the Nanjing Treaty in August of 1842. At the end of the War China also conceded Hong Kong, which was a barren Island, to the British.

The Second Anglo-China War (1856-1860)

After the Signing of the Nanjing Treaty, it was evident that the Qing Dynasty did not accept many of the conditions that favored the British. Furthermore, the British began to feel that the treaty did not meet their own needs. As a result the British allied with the French and fought a second war against China. The western forces won again leading to the signing of the Tianjin Treaty, The Qing resisted the new treaty and would not comply until British and French Forces occupied Beijing.

The Great Taiping Rebellion (1851-1864)

Beginning in Southern China, The Great Taiping Rebellion arose due to the disgraces suffered during the Opium War with Britain and the famine of 1846 to 1848. Southern China suffered the gravest social effects from the opium trade was also the Qing's weakest military hold. The leader of the revolution was Hong Xiuquan, a misinformed and slightly delusional Christian practitioner who, after minimal Christian teachings, had come to believe that he was the younger brother of Jesus and God had called upon him to save humankind. He preached the righteousness of wrath in overcoming oppression. Hong and his six appointed activists ultimately led half of the rebel elements in China. With their ritualistic beliefs and practices, including praying and singing, resulted in a religious mass geared for war. They called themselves the Taiping Tianguo, and attracted new recruits through goodwill to the common person, an extreme dedication to the cause and fear among other things. In defiance of the Qing, who requirements were to have a shaved head with a single ponytail, the Taiping let their hair grow wild. As it turns out the Taiping Rebellion became part of a Civil war in China. The Civil war took a sever toll on China and a change of Qing Leadership and policy were ultimately required before the Qing could defeat the Rebellion.

Added events filling the time gap

The Self-Strengthening Movement (1864-1895)

With the Recent wars and the Civil war, China realized that some restructuring needed to be done in order to strengthen China. China, like japan had done began to Westernize itself, hoping that national regeneration could be achieved through the application of Western practical methods. The movement was lead by Scholar-Generals like Li Hongzhang and Zuo Zongtang, who had fought with the government forces in the aforementioned Taiping Rebellion. They established modern institutions, industries, communitications, transportation and modernized the military. But despite all this the movements leaders ignored the significance of the political institutions and social theories that fostered Western advances and innovations. As a result the movement failed, and Chinese society was still reeling from the events of the prior decades. And the Foreign powers looked to China's lands with hungry eyes...
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[JohnnyPsycho]

Terrific first post, Niam Maxtor! A very hearty welcome to our boards, and thank you so much for the information on Chinese history up to 1864. It's always good to hear from a fellow history-buff... Will you be sharing more on Chinese history leading up to the present setting of Bon Bon, such as the Self-Strengthening Movement or the First Sino-Japanese War?
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[Niam Maxtor]

I would be happy to, and thanks for the welcome, I was also thinking of post a couple other articles, such as one on Egypt and one on currency and exchange rates.
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[JohnnyPsycho]

Whatever you'd like to include, we'll all welcome it... any information to better understand the era that Bon Bon's story is set in is greatly appreciated.

Also, have you given a description of your character in any of the other threads yet? If not, you can always start a new thread to introduce yourself to everyone.
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[Niam Maxtor]

updated my original post to fill the gap, and I'm still working out the details on my fursona, as well as brushing up on my Egyptian history.
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[Xebulon]

Fascinating information Mr. Maxtor, thank you!
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[Aaron_Thom]

Wasn't the Boxers Rebellion going on in China in the late 19th Century?
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[Niam Maxtor]

Yes as a matter of fact it was, but the Boxers rebellion started in 1898 and ended in 1901 that's why I didn't include it.
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[Niam Maxtor]

Hey all, I found this on the internet earlier today and thought I'd put it in here as a little bit of interesting information.

Daimler Reitwagen (1885)



As their first motor vehicle inventors Gottlieb Daimler and Wilhelm Mayback built the so-called 'Reitwagen' - which means 'Riding Car' in english - in 1885. From that - without intention - the first motorcycle resulted. At the time both inventors were only concerned with their testing of a new 'fast' running engine, and needed an unproblematic vehicle, one with simple steering and needed no differential, to test it with.

This Experimental vehicle which they called the 'Rietwagen,' had a four-stroke one-cylinder engine with a displacement of 264ccm and 0.5hp power output at 700rpm, additionally a hot tube ignition and blower cooling. The 'Reitwagen' could reach speeds of up to 12km/h (or 7.4mph), but was considered an experimental vehicle and no futher deveolpment of this new means of transportation took place until many years later.
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[Niam Maxtor]

Well, here is the post on Egypt. All I could really find was information on North Africa rather than just Egypt.

Nineteenth Century Egypt - The Rise and fall of the Khedive

The French Withdraw (1801)

The French withdraw from Egypt after British intervention. Many of the artifacts discovered and collected by Napoleon while in Egypt end up in Britain after the French defeat, among those now is the Rosetta Stone.

The Rise of Muhammad Ali (1805-1863)

In the upheaval caused by the French defeat, the Albanian military leader Muhammad Ali seizes power in Egypt, and becomes Governor-General of the Ottoman province and rules for the next forty-three years as a semi-independent dynast. He works to rebuild Egypt as a modern industrial and military power, establishing schools for engineering, medicine, agriculture, administration, and military training. He is sent by the Sultan in 1811 to restore order in the Arabian Peninsula, but then rebels himself, conquering the Sudan in 1822, Syria in 1831 and marching on Istanbul in 1832. The Ottomans halt his approach with foreign military aid, and in the peace settlement granted him temporary governorship of Syria and Crete, with permanent hereditary rule of Egypt. His descendants take the special title of khedive. During his reign, European artists David Roberts and Jean-Leon Gerome visit Cairo; Egyptian artists training in Europe bring back with them Baroque and Rococo influences that appear in the contemporary architecture of Cairo. The mosque built in the Mamluk citadel of the city, though, imitates the local Ottoman style.

Khedive Ismail (1863-1876)

In the year 1867, the Ottoman Sultan confers on Ismail Pasha the title of khedive, giving him a special position in the empire and allowing him to sign independent technical and economic agreements with foreign powers. During the early years of khedive Ismail's governorship in Egypt, the country prospers. Egyptian cotton is in demand as American supplies are reduced during the Civil War, and in 1869 the opening of the Suez Canal increases Egypt's role in international trade. The canal is inaugurated with great fanfare and with the attendance of many foreign dignitaries.

Many European tourists flock to the country, supporting a new market for inlaid metalwork and other copies of ancient artifacts. Their interest in local art is paralleled by Ismail's interest in European art. Of which increases after he visits Paris in 1867. Ismail builds an extensive compound for the Parisian exposition of 1867, which he visits. Soon however, his reliance of foreign loans causes bankruptcy, and he is forced to sell rights of the Canal to the British in 1875. Britain takes control of the country's finances in 1876, and three years later Ismail is deposed of.

British Occupation (1882+)

The British intervenes to halt the popular uprising against the khedive, and in turn takes Egypt as a protectorate. Lord Cromer is installed as the proconsul and is governing Egypt at this current time (1895).
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[Tearlach]

Welcome to the forum and thank you for the information.
Much discourse goes on here at the forum as to why there are so many military avatars here. But as your postings show there were many conflicts in China and indeed the rest of the world that would account for so many avatars in that profession,
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[Vanessa]

I dont' be sure if these miniatures of spy guns are too anachronistic but these pieces are too cool to pass unobserved:
http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2008/02/miniature-spy-guns.html


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[Xebulon]

[Caroline]

((I had a quick question for the history buffs, since I'm more of a history flirt than a history buff, but anyway...

Weren't most of the countries from 1870 - 1900 kinda isolationist as a whole? And didn't the isolationism lead to rampant nationalism in the early 1900s when modes of travel became quicker and more reliable? I mean... some of the character backgrounds have them traveling / traveled / lived-in like four different continents... which doesn't seem to jive with the whole isolationism kinda thing... though I guess Imperialism and the World Land Grab started around 1870 - 1880.

I ask because we do seem to have a lot of people who have traveled like three or more continents. Caroline has traveled across the United States, from both coasts, and her father saw a bit of the Carribean and Mexico during the Spanish American war... but these places were relatively easy to get to via rail / horse / steam liner... and Caroline really never made it past the Mississippi... she still talks about California as "exotic"

just... curious... stupid insomina keeping me up way later than I want it too))

[Xebulon]

[JohnnyPsycho]

I'd also add that in the late 19th century, there were scores of traveling circuses and attractions, and American traveling shows in particular seemed to innovate the way they traveled. In particular, circus pioneer P.T. Barnum was the first circus owner to use trains to move his circus around. He had merged his circus with that of James Bailey in 1881 to form the "Barnum & Bailey Greatest Show on Earth". The Ringling Brothers were also running their own circus around this time, having founded theirs in 1884.

Then there's the American vaudeville shows, which featured acts of all kinds such as comedians, singers, dancers, acrobats, magicians, actors (usually performing scenes from plays or one-act plays), female and male impersonators, athletes, trained animal acts, and sometimes shooting exhibitions. The vaudeville shows were largely prevailent in American and Canadian stages and were popular throughout the 1880s to the 1930s.

And, of course, let's not forget the traveling Wild West shows, of which the first innovator was Buffalo Bill Cody, who founded his Wild West show in 1883. It featured cowboys, gauchos, equestrian acts and rodeo riders from around the world, Indians, captive buffalo, staged stampedes, shooting exhibitions, outlaws and other dubious celebrities, and re-enactments of famous battles, stagecoach ambushes and shoot-outs. Among the stars to emerge from the Wild West shows were Annie Oakley, Frank Butler, Tom Mix, Will Rogers, Lillian Smith, Calamity Jane, and even historical figures like Wild Bill Hickock and Chief Sitting Bull (Tatanka Yotanka) of the Hunkpapa Lakota (Sioux). Wild West shows were especially popular in the Eastern part of the United States (naturally) and in the Midwest. In 1887, Buffalo Bill took his show to Britain to perform for Queen Victoria's Golden Jubilee (her fiftieth year since assension to the throne), and would later tour Europe in 1889.

So basically, if you were a performer or celebrity during this time in history, you almost always traveled far and wide.
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[kommy]

Actually, Ms. Caroline, this period is hardly an isolationist one. This is the heyday of imperialism and colonialism, with Europe fighting sharp, bloody wars with one another and the rest of the world, carving out empires at home and abroad. The only nations that can really be called isolationist in this half of the century are China, Japan, and arguably the USA, though all of these nations have either opened up or are/will shortly become more forceful in world affairs.

Africa is being rapidly carved up between the European powers, the British Empire at the peak of it's power, Imperial China falling apart under the combined weight of the West, Japan still rabidly importing European ideas and technology under the Meiji restoration, and the USA clamping down on it's modern day western states and starting to ponder an overseas empire of it's own. With steamships and rail roads, plus great public interest in the exotic and overseas trade, travel has never before been faster, cheaper, or more commonplace. I would say that this period of time is actually the start of what we now call globalization.


Dangit, need to write up some more for this topic... *mutters, digging around in her desk for papers and pens*
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[Coldfire]

well remember during this time the USA is currently recovering from its bloodiest wars in its history. the American Civil war

[Kiala_Tiagra]

wow all 9 pages of great history of the victorian era.
this might be a while to take but i'll try to absorb more info here as days passes


hmm...
here is the link mr johnny psycho gave me,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipple_piercing
not much info but i figure its still related to the victorian era on the "history" part?
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[JohnnyPsycho]